To be fair they got a walkover to the final
What about the feile winning teams? it’s amazing we can compete with such cackhanded hurlers.
Dublin North v Kieran’s this Thursday.
And I think we have a better 15 available this year
Slot in Sutcliffe for say McGibb (maybe not, I am just making a point), Keaney for O Dwyer and in the forwards we become significantly better off. I would probably slot Ryan or Treacy in for Burke also, I think Burke while a great young lad is a year away yet physically. But all of a sudden we have a forward line that is better then the one that beat Cork.
I am not concerned really with the backs, I think we have loads of options there. Midfield though is an issue and it might come down to two Cuala lads (O Donnell and Moran?). Although Connolly is the one guy that was given a chance and is taking it - he did well the other night too.
Edit - just looking at that last years team again - we have tried so many at midfield over the last few years I am sort of disappointed I didn’t get an oul’ call myself to get the boots out…
They didn’t get a walkover all the way to the final. They won Leinster, would have won the semi against Antrim if it was played and lost the final to the Munster champions (who had also beaten Galway) by two points. So they were two points off the winners of the final.
Lets hope we get a few from that u17. I do think we lack “natural wristy” hurlers who strike the ball with ease and a good distance quicker than we do. I think the fact that we only have to beat kilkenny to get to all ireland semi finals has papered over the cracks. Beating them seems to be our all ireland and we usually end up getting a thumping in a semi final…with an inability to win our own ball and being able to strike it without being hooked or blocked. Hard to put a finger on why its the case. Maybe kids in the country practise more with their pals…poorer internet in rural areas might mean kids are out pucking a ball around more than we are.
I know that. Never said they got a walkover all the way to the final.
The would have won the final but or a sending off
There does seem to be an above average amount of ‘awkward’ looking hurlers on the current team, but that isn’t really the team when it will come down to the nitty gritty of it (I hope). One caveat though in that our most awkward looking hurler is one of our best, Rushe. But it is one of the reasons I don’t like O Callaghan at full back - the swing is too awkward and too easily blocked. Rushe seems to have developed his own unique way around his other short comings.
I think when it comes down to the main team, we will get back to guys with a more traditional skill set. We do have them, we just aren’t getting them all out at the moment. At underage, I have never really seen a difference in style. Really good teams will have more guys who can do the more difficult stuff, but that is as much a question of being better rather then anything else.
What we do have, or at least from a small sample of the senior hurlers, is left handed hurlers who play properly left handed, i.e. strong hand on top. I see in a lot of other counties, left handers for some reason seem to revert to a golf grip, so still have their right hand on top.
Was it just me or did anyone else notice the complete lack of movement by all our forwards last Saturday when we got possession of the ball out on the wing? There always seemed to be just one lad standing at the edge of the square! Nobody running into space looking for a pass. About half a dozen times Danny got the ball out on the left and Keaney was in same situation a few times also. Very frustrating to watch at times. And all because nobody wanted to show for the ball!
Thought there were a few very good players on the minors and u17s last year.
I do agree that when we go down the panel too far the quality drops quite a bit, especially with the lads WiFi points out who are missing for whatever reason currently.
I don’t buy this Dublin lack twisty hurlers stuff, had a Cavan man tell me about our robotic footballers recently. Had to laugh. But you used to hear it all the time. We just weren’t good enough before. It’s the same now, we need our best players playing. We can’t afford to be missing 8-9-10 first choice players.
That’s true, but I didn’t understand any of the movement or lack of it. Limerick played a man back covering the half back line for a lot of the game, but I could never find our corresponding free man. It looked like they had more men on the field then us. We had both midfielders subbed, but I think they were a victim of a bad system more then anything.
That post is spot on! I recall thinking exactly that! Have Limerick got two extra men? Just for the life of me I couldn’t find our spare men! No doubt we we meant to be playing some sort of a system! Just we didn’t execute it properly. But look it’s early doors and we have to allow the players to grow into this new system.
If we can’t get the ball in hand it does not matter how wristy our swing is. Handling is a real problem at the moment. Can’t even get it from our own puckouts and I can’t see any evidence of a plan to win those puckouts.
Movement is king in hurling these days. Little hand passes at the right time/angle can unlock the tightest defence. Shane O’Donnell is a master at it. He plays hurling like kids used to play street soccer - all touch and fun.
do we know who is actually on the panel at this stage?
Just steeled myself and watched the recording. In all fairness, it was woeful stuff. I am fairly sure Burke hadn’t the ball in his hand for the entire second half until the 72nd minute (when he gave it away), he had no effective tackle in the game either. Whitley maybe had the ball in his hand twice in the second half. Rushe won a free, but miss controlled everything else. I am a big fan of the guy, but he was like a poor junior hurler out there that night. Likewise I am a big fan of Burke, but to me he does not look ready for this yet. Maybe the harder ground will suit him better though.
Boland was rusty a bit in the first half, but still got on a bit of ball and scored a great point. McGibb did more then I thought watching it live.
Smith and O Carroll were eaten alive in the full back line, although they were trying to stem a fairly strong tide.
I rarely if ever saw a forward back past the half way line (Sutcliffe excepted), it was like watching a team from the 80s, where guys stood in their positions for the game. That is how Limerick got the overlaps, the Limerick backs broke and no one followed them.
The substitutions and system were so illogical that there has to be another plan we don’t know about. Or else, maybe more likely, there are a host of injuries and the concentration is on getting guys back in the longer term. But it is all a bit scary now…
Fair play to you for watching that again wifi. Glutton for punishment. The way lads are reappearing straight into the starting line up (after having been out for ages) and then some of them disappear again as quickly suggests that they’re very much in experimentation mode. Pat says they’re working the lads hard as well, which might explain the lack of energy and seeming lack of pace to our play. Doesn’t sound very sport sciencey though does it?
Gilroy’s first year in Division One of the league with the footballers and they nearly got relegated so it’s fair to say he doesn’t always go all out for the league. We can only hope that’s what’s going on here. Problem is confidence will start to suffer if we keep struggling and usually teams have one or two off games over the course of the league, or start slow and build from there but we’re really not at the races yet at all.
It’s a brave strategy considering most of the management are football men and the worry a lot of people (justifiably) have is that they’re not going to understand the nuances of intercounty hurling. To start the process and implement what they’re doing now rather then trying to prove the doubters wrong by going all out for the league and getting the confidence up takes balls.
Lets just hope that’s what’s going on, and that it works out for them. i suppose with the new championship structure they have more games later in the year to work with, so it’s possible this will pay off but we really need to get going sooner than later i’d have thought.
On the face of it, Gilroy’s supposed long-term plan should provide comfort to those fearing the worst.
However, between development squads and Minor & Under 21 teams generally holding their own at the business end of the championship for almost a decade and a half - in other words, a conveyor belt of talent - it shouldn’t be that difficult to unearth whatever talent is available in the county without degenerating into the whipping boys of Division 1B.
Bar Mickey Whelan’s (one year) stint with the Vins Senior hurlers in 2017 there is no-one with an in-depth, hands-on knowledge of Dublin hurling in the current management team. I know Sean Brady could hurl with the best of them back in the 90’s but his focus has been with the Vins Senior Footballers in recent times. In business terms, Pat Gilroy might refer to this as a lack of Corporate Memory. By dispensing with it you leave yourself open to repeating the mistakes of the past.
Anyone who remembers the 2011 U21 Campaign won’t have been surprised to see Bill O’Carroll or Darren Kelly struggle against even moderately pacey players at this level. Anyone who paid the slightest attention during the Ger Cunningham years won’t have been surprised to see Liam Rushe’s ineffective performance when introduced in the forwards on Saturday. There are other examples which have already been outlined above and while, at this stage, it may need to get worse before it gets better, there are a few quick-fixes that would at least limit the damage for the time-being.
Finally, I’m not sure if I buy the building for the future line either. Most of the new players introduced are already in their mid 20’s. Some are a bit older. Few, if any, of them could have been considered game-breakers even at club level. If Pat Gilroy has the luxury of not being measured by results, why didn’t he go the whole hog and subject guys in their early 20’s to the chastening experience that being a Dublin hurler has become?
He is delighted with the progress, couldn’t be happier.