Brexit


#1952

#1953

#1954

#1955

Good man Irvine - ya would love to see boris locked up with a Franco type character


#1956

They throw the immigration issue about like snuff at a wake when the reality is they have total control of their borders but chose not to exercise it.

But the thing that really blows my mind is the widespread attitude of ‘tell the EU to fcuk off - we’ll dictate the terms, they won’t tell us.’

My UK friends - you were in a block of 28 countries with considerable trade and other benefits - and you chose to leave. You do not dictate the divorce terms having pulled out of the marriage. As the great Anne Robinson was fond of saying, and if the EU decrees, you leave with nothing!


#1957

Is there possibly a war in all this? Me thinks there is. Another Euro war, where arms dealers fill their coffers and their kind encourage it! As long as we stay neutral, eh?


#1958

I can see serious social strife in the UK. There is a substantial element of facism on the Leave side. Meanwhile, Johnny Businessman, taxpayer and Mr general do-gooder is being fcuked over by twats who live off the very system they sustain.


#1959

Don’t agree a that it was a fair election. The leave campaign overspent by 10% deliberately and strategically, and win by 4% (2% swing would send it the other way) and Arron banks the main funder is in bed with the Russians and appear to have been financed by them. The russians also ran a huge number of Facebook campaigns, had trolls and bots arguing the toss on every social and/or online platform imaginable. This is democracy being subverted directly & strategically and shockingly effectively. The same bullshit/illicit tactics were used to elect trump.

Besides we know from our rerun elections that often the first vote is a protest vote against the government. Johnson’s pledge that the nhs would get the cash saved was completely misleading. As was Farage in front of a queue of refugees. Disgraceful but sadly very effective tactics. To make such a huge change on a shady margin as that is incomprehensible, especially when brexit was not even defined (it still isn’t 2 years later).


#1960

Are they not currently obliged to admit anyone holding an EU Nation passport into the UK?


#1961

They do now


#1962

Thats ellections now tayto, it’s something the electorate will need to get used to and start educating themself. Crying foul after the fact is pointless. The EU have shot themselves in the foot on a number of issues, the bureaucratic lords of Brussels have built their own kingdom and industry. Add this to the mountains of debt they have forced tax payers to take, the lack or workers protection and you can see where the disillusion starts. This then feeds the hard right who will manipulate the anger and resentment. I personally feel if the EU does not reform quickly there will be a massive democratic crisis in Europe and the block will split, then watch out for rocheys war.


#1963

While there are undoubtedly flaws in modern democracies and capitalism, the brexiteer vision is to to have free trade with everyone, and sod workers & standards. Pure distilled Thatcherism is their goal.

The EU has plenty of flaws but at least it makes some pretense of standing up to big business to cater for people’s rights & the environment. Much more so then a hardline Tory government will, or then happens in the so called “land of the free”.

Flawed but the best of a bad lot, and hard brexit is economic suicide for the less well of areas. But they managed to dismiss all of that with the catchy ‘project fear’ :roll_eyes:


#1964

So campaigns can break the law? You’re good with that? In sport if you cheat criminally, the result is over turned. Vote leave have been found to have broken the law deliberately & systematically.

Not crying about it, that is serious. Do not expect the result to be overturned But it has to be taken into account when talking about how strong the mandate to leave is. And it strengthens the case for a vote on the final deal.

Simple fix is that Social media needs to be banned from allowing political advertising. Tv and radio strictly regulate political ads. Social media is the Wild West. They rightfully started banning ads during the referendum campaign. Because there was a load of American money buying anti abortion ads in Ireland.

Needs to be expanded to ban all political ads on all social platforms with huge fines for the companies if ads slip through.

The EU needs to sort out the migration crisis for sure, leaving Italy and Greece carrying the load ( other countries have refused to help) is unsustainable. Merkel taking in a million refugees is novel but has fueled the far right.


#1965

I didn’t say it was ok however it’s part of and always has been part of ellection. Money has always influenced politics and laws/ rules have always been broken. Eg My 1st vote I remember a Labour party high profile polition in tallaght walking people up to the ballot box, when a young officer pointed this out she rounded on her with the do you know who I am and he continued . While i agree rules are good there will never be an election over turned. Whats happening how is a a larger level however people are not stupid and should not allow themselves to remain ignorant.


#1966

They could regulate to prevent mass influx such as requiring verified jobs before people arrive or losing the rights to benefit if they do not have the right to stay. The Belgians have stricter controls through domestic legislation.


#1967

So freedom of movement doesn’t exist?


#1968

It does if you satisfy certain criteria.


#1969

So, if I get off a plane in Brussels looking to spend a weekend there and present myself with my Irish passport at passport control, they can say to me “no entry - we believe you are coming here to work and have no job that you can prove is there for you”?


#1970

No. They can’t do that.


#1971

So what can the UK currently do to stop any number of EU citizens entering their country (I’ve noted @DUB09’s point about withdrawing welfare/benefit payments)?