He does indeed make a great point Beeko
- but no offence I really don’t get yours?! Your reference to GAA club names is of no relevance to this discussion about poppies.
He does indeed make a great point Beeko
Might not be the best reference, granted, but naming clubs as such was in commemoration of Republican pillars.
I don’t support the poppy, never have, never will. But I recognise its significance, especially its initial intention. My main point is that I support one’s right to wear a poppy every bit as much I support one’s right NOT to wear one - it should be a matter of personal choice. My second and original point is that FIFA/UEFA are not in any moral position to be dictating on such matters, in my opinion.
I think they are, in such a multi-national sport, you can’t allow teams to wear politically charged symbols outside their general kit. A blanket ban is the only way to be fair across the board.
As Bart might say, we’ll have to agree to disagree.
I think the issue is where would it stop. You could quickly move into areas of great sensitivity in countries and there is the risk of incitement.
What’s wrong with commemorating defence service people? The vast majority are very genuine and many very genuine and good things have been done. Terrible injustices and bad things can also be commemorated, just as all the good things and then all the dead who, as we know from wars and conflicts, don’t necessarily fit into one or another ‘category’.
English people also tolerate alot of ethnic diversity and the rights of people to express their nationality and ethnicity whilst making their lives in England. If people carried on here the way some do in England you’d have the same people here, who preach to the English about not being prejudiced or forcing things on people who don’t want them, saying “these people need to respect our culture” and so on.
According to the BBC’s website, “Fifa prohibits political, religious or commercial messages on shirts”. If that’s the case, you could rule out an awful lot of National Emblems on shirts.
The only objection I would have to the poppy is that the monies raised go to the British Legion and are not in a fund for all the men and women who gave up their lives for some very dubious reasons but did so in the belief that they were protecting weaker people from oppression. I think it is being used politically in this situation to display a unity in the UK that is under threat from Credit.
The british army has a long history of misadventure.
It’s good of them to tolerate ethnic diversity when they colonised most of these countries and made them part of their ‘empire’ …
Yes that’s a given. So are you saying that English people can not publicly commemorate or celebrate anything about their defence forces, about all the many good and great people, or just simply all those who died no matter what the politics of it, because their army (like all military the world over) has done alot of bad things? That was my question.
The point was, should English people be told what they can’t do at all re-their service people, in a public or national way, because of all or any wrongdoings in the past? What about what the DMP did to poor people, strikers etc in 1913 here? Most of them were very Irish. Should we therefore ban any public celebration or commemoration of the police or defence forces in Ireland?
The immigrants in England are now mostly English, of various ethnic backgrounds. They should have the choice about wearing poppies etc but a nation state has to be able to commemorate its military dead in some sort of public way. Is this what people are saying should not happen? Maybe I’m misunderstanding the argument here?
Fair points Al but what has a soccer match got to do with any of it.
Like it or not soccer matches are events with public displays. There are laws and cultural agreements that define what is and isn’t expected, acceptable or whatever. ‘It’s complicated’, would be my answer to that. But that’s my answer to everything! I was born on a fence…
Comparisons with crosses etc that are parts of national emblems don’t hold as they are parts of it.
The poppy in this instance is being added to the jersey to make a point. I understand one mp has questioned why a similar commemorative emblem was allowed to mark the Rising, which is a fair point. But I think that was a friendly? If that matters.
I don’t see how a professional sporting event equates as a cultural event.
This stance is just another example of the Brexit vote. Either row in behind us or go and live in the EU
They can do what they like off the field of sport. Seriously if fifa sanctioned this, they’d be opening a can of worms. looks like they’re going to go ahead with the poppies anyway. Hope they get a hefty fine.
Would have agreed with this - until i read about the Irish jerseys with the 1916 commemoration on it last year - so have they opened that can ?
It should remain off the jeresys - it can kick start all sorts of shit - http://thesefootballtimes.co/2015/09/28/zvonimir-boban-and-the-kick-that-started-a-war/
So when people go to the Aviva to shout for Ireland or whoever, they are not involved in some sort of cultural event? Culture in the broad sense, even the part of the event that is just the fans wearing colours etc? I presume you mean re-the players. I would say that players at all national sporting events have some link to some cultural factors, examples of which have been given by others above.
Anyway I think the issue here is about players being “required” to wear poppies, for the reaosn that if they didn’t, they would be indicating disrespect for the national service people, who did their duty for their nation, in which the event is taking place, and who are being commemorated.
I’m sure there’s clear precedent, from the rugby matches for example? No way both teams can be expected to wear an emblem like that. An armband maybe. By choice.
missed that … that’s a bit ridiculous so …