Leinster SFC Final 2016, Dublin v Westmeath, Croke Park, Sun July 17th @ 4pm


#383

black card is no penalty when the player can be replaced. For the stronger sides it really pays to foul


#384

Apologies, I misread you post. I thought you were insinuating that they were working fine. I’m 100% with you on this one. You can be guaranteed that Diarmuid O’Connor would never have been let score that goal on Saturday evening if it was against Dublin/Kerry/Tyrone etc


#385

Yes, the more serious caution is always the one to issue.


#386

It is supposed to be black or white. However. In every walk of life someone’s light black is someone else’s dark grey. Your view about the incident having no bearing on play does not come into it as per rule book. Not saying that the logic does not make sense, just that the rule does not back up that logic.


#387

Not a fair assessment of how the intercounty refs would view the black cards. Might be the case for the general public though. Refs at that level will attend countless seminars where this, and other issues, are thrashed out. Video clip after video clip will be shown, voted on (which card should be given) and then explained why a particular card should issue. There are also weekly video clips issued where the refs submit their choice of cards, and results are posted back to them. All this is done in an attempt to achieve consistency.

Just unfortunate that, unlike the clip, they only get one view of an incident and have to ne 100% certain before they issue a card.


#388

With that in mind, where would you stand on a TMO being available for games? Obviously there is the issue of not every game having the facilities available to facilitate a TMO but you can see what I’m getting at.


#389

Absolutely, should have stuck to the sin-bin option and it should have been a proper sin-bin (not bringing on a sub). They caved in too early and easily on that one.


#390

I wouldn’t be against the idea but serious criteria would have to be agreed on when it could be used. Would rather see a hawkeye style approach where the tmo could inform the ref if the situation warrants, rather than the ref continuously going upstairs, ie copping out on the decision making.

The black card still has an important role, but I feel that the sin bin never got s fair trial.


#391

I agree they went out of their way to ‘try’ and make it clear, but I can’t see how you can’t have interpretation brought into it. Even for what one ref might think is a clear cut black card another might disagree. And then you have the whole ‘common sense’ approach that’s preached by commentators that seems it should be applied to all rules.

Someone mentioned a TMO above, anything that’ brings about the right decision should be considered. When you have a ref having to make a decision on a millisecond viewing and he then gets criticized after people have had 10 different angles on it, slowed down, frozen, rewound and debated the issue for 5 mins. Even after all of that, people still disagree and yet the refs still get pilloried for it!


#392

I’m a lovely chap altogether but I’m never wrong.


#393

As John Cleese said in bewilderment in the Cheese Shop, explain the logic underlying that statement?

If the rest of your post is meant as a disagreement with my post, I don’t see the point you’re making. Naturally the fact we lost those players is the main issue here, and my point was simply about how it almost certainly brings us seriously back from the level we were at (no offence to the replacements but clearly we all know we are talking about 3 all-time great (potentially in Jack’s case) players here.


#394

And some are “all of the above”! :grin:

** Stands up, stares manically, with arms outstretched and moobs/belly thrust forward **


#396

Which entirely ignores the small fact that since the league we have lost 3 great backs, and have yet to face anything approaching serious opposition. That was the point. To cut a long story short, our gameplan is likely to suffer serious problems due to the players we’ve lost. And people seem to be in dreamland/denial about that


#397

What I meant by the scoreline thing is that if they take comfort from the fact that the scoreline was close they are fooling themselves, because what happend on the pitch was not a true reflection of the scoreline and more times than not that score difference would have been much bigger, if one team dominated the play for most of the game in the way we did in those games.


#398

I’m not a general optimist - but so far I’ve seen nothing that would scare me from the remaining teams. Obviously the serious contenders are all going to improve from here and by the semi-final I’ll be my usual nervous wreck.

But until then…I currently think the ultra-pessimists on this board are forgetting the league final - where we easily beat a strong Kerry team (apparently our biggest threat) that was seriously up for it, desperate for a win and intent on testing our weakened fullback line and used the dreaded long ball in to a proven ball winner. And we came through it easily enough. Of course McCarthy will be a lose in the semi - especially against Kerry with their missing forward back. But McCarthy won’t be missed in the quarter - THAT’S How strong we are.


#399

Who replaces James. I think it’s fanciful to expect us to win Sam with half the first choice backline missing and a midfield being propped up by a 22 year old. We narrowly won the Semi and Final last year with a full whack.

So I think it’s up in the air personally. I just don’t see this guaranteed optimism some people have considering we haven’t won back to back AI’s since 77.


#400

Fair enough, though we didn’t dominate Mayo in 2013, probably should have won by 4 or 5 max. Why do you think it is we ended up only winning last year’s final by 3? Why did we sometimes leave it so late in the big games? And that was with our full choice of squad


#401

I agree with you in general, Lonerager. But at this stage of the season - just before it gets serious - I think that form has shown that our main contenders “seem” to have fallen back on last year - mayo and Kerry. Tyrone look good but not good enough. Of course all three could turn it around and zoom into magnificent form. But until there’s that sort of evidence, it’s hard not to feel a foolhardy confidence.

But like I said earlier, I’ve no doubt I’ll have flipped by the semi and have convinced myself that Kerry threw the league final and the Gooch et al were just pretending to be gutted afterwards, just to lure us into their trap. But until then, I think we’ll boss this championship!


#402

That’s the spirit :sweat_smile::sweat_smile:


#403

Another pair of Kool Aid heads … :scream: