Minor & U17 Hurling Championships 2017

[sneakersotoole]

If lads at this age are not getting competitive games they will never develop. I know the exams are always used as an excuse but there needs to be more club games. A double round of fixtures. I know my own club got 5 hurling league games this season. That’s pathetic. We are hoping to get our county teams to all Ireland finals by giving them less games. We haven’t a hope with the way things are ran

[TheLoneRanger]

it won’t be good enough .

Good enough for what? To dominate like Kilkenny did recently? No, definitely not. To compete in the top 3/4 team on a regular basis? I would argue that we ought to be able to do that if we produce enough minor and u21 teams which are competitive with the top 3/4 teams in the country, then our seniors ought to get to that level. Good enough to win an AI? Maybe not but we should be a lot better than currently.

we’ve in been to the top 4 at minor level for a decade now and not even top6 at senior level.

Are you being serious when you say you can’t see the correlation ?

[Neo]

There needs to be more of a relationship between the county set up and the club problem is there is not a working relationship. I feel players should play for their club during a minor season but should not train. I know that what happens down the country. They fully expect the county lad to play but not train and be flogged.

[Tayto]

we’ve in been to the top 4 at minor level for a decade now and not even top6 at senior level.

Are you being serious when you say you can’t see the correlation ?

Have we not had a decade of unprecedented success by Dublin hurling standards?

Are you suggesting our current position at senior is accurate based on the players produced over the last decade? We’ve gone backwards at senior the last three years and it’s not the development systems fault. If we had everyone available we’d be a different proposition.

You said the other week that Waterford forwards reminded you of our forwards. Look at the 34 year old Brick Walsh giving Cork’s hot new prospect defender a torrid time. Kevin Moran is no DJ Carey but had a huge impact on the game yesterday.

We have the players to match waterford if we had everyone on board (and fit) IMHO.

[TheLoneRanger]

we’ve in been to the top 4 at minor level for a decade now and not even top6 at senior level.

Are you being serious when you say you can’t see the correlation ?

Have we not had a decade of unprecedented success by Dublin hurling standards?

Are you suggesting our current position at senior is accurate based on the players produced over the last decade? We’ve gone backwards at senior the last three years and it’s not the development systems fault. If we had everyone available we’d be a different proposition.

You said the other week that Waterford forwards reminded you of our forwards. Look at the 34 year old Brick Walsh giving Cork’s hot new prospect defender a torrid time. Kevin Moran is no DJ Carey but had a huge impact on the game yesterday.

We have the players to match waterford if we had everyone on board (and fit) IMHO.

In my view we don’t. They have 3-4 special talents . Maybe not forwards but they make their team. But we don’t have any Jamie Barron’s or Austin Gleeson for example.

We’ve gone backwards because the 2013 team is finished and Cunningham was a disaster
But some here are still expecting some of the 2013 team to make some sort of a Lazurus style recovery that is not happening any day of the week.

[Wifi]

we’ve in been to the top 4 at minor level for a decade now and not even top6 at senior level.

Are you being serious when you say you can’t see the correlation ?

Have we not had a decade of unprecedented success by Dublin hurling standards?

Are you suggesting our current position at senior is accurate based on the players produced over the last decade? We’ve gone backwards at senior the last three years and it’s not the development systems fault. If we had everyone available we’d be a different proposition.

You said the other week that Waterford forwards reminded you of our forwards. Look at the 34 year old Brick Walsh giving Cork’s hot new prospect defender a torrid time. Kevin Moran is no DJ Carey but had a huge impact on the game yesterday.

We have the players to match waterford if we had everyone on board (and fit) IMHO.

Of course that is correct - but discussing it with people who have a fixed position regardless of all evidence is a pointless exercise.

[Wifi]

That’s just part of the problem. Huge lack of belief by everyone, you, me whatever, were all f’n guilty of it. I think we’re been way too harsh here. We could have won this game today, not one bit interested in how skilful folks thought Cork were. We could have won. And it will happen sooner rather than later. Believe me.

Of course it will, it nearly happened at U17 this year.

There is no secret here, at the moment some other counties just have a higher volume of good players then us so get to pick a better team. But we are getting a sustained period of being up there now, so one year it is going to happen for us and all the time we are increasing the supply to the seniors.

[TheLoneRanger]

we’ve in been to the top 4 at minor level for a decade now and not even top6 at senior level.

Are you being serious when you say you can’t see the correlation ?

Have we not had a decade of unprecedented success by Dublin hurling standards?

Are you suggesting our current position at senior is accurate based on the players produced over the last decade? We’ve gone backwards at senior the last three years and it’s not the development systems fault. If we had everyone available we’d be a different proposition.

You said the other week that Waterford forwards reminded you of our forwards. Look at the 34 year old Brick Walsh giving Cork’s hot new prospect defender a torrid time. Kevin Moran is no DJ Carey but had a huge impact on the game yesterday.

We have the players to match waterford if we had everyone on board (and fit) IMHO.

Of course that is correct - but discussing it with people who have a fixed position regardless of all evidence is a pointless exercise.

Put your evidence down . Mine is based on results and facts.

If we’d less of the Mary Poppins attitude to hurling in this county and a little more based on reality then we would be a Top 4 side.

[Iomaint]

I think the new manager will have a serious rebuilding job. I’m not worried that we are in division 2 of the league. Once the right management team is in charge, it will need 2 or 3 years to get things back on track.

[Tayto]

In my view we don’t. They have 3-4 special talents . Maybe not forwards but they make their team. But we don’t have any Jamie Barron’s or Austin Gleeson for example.

Not many have an Austin Gleeson to be fair. He’s something else. savage player. We did have a Danny Sutcliffe though. We had a Peter Kelly till he was injured. We have Eoin O’Donnell. I wouldn’t lose sight of some of the players we have produced over the last few years. If some of them are gone for good prematurely then it is a real shame but we still produced them.

We’ve gone backwards because the 2013 team is finished and Cunningham was a disaster
But some here are still expecting some of the 2013 team to make some sort of a Lazurus style recovery that is not happening any day of the week.

Agree … but the point we’re discussing is whether consistently producing top 4/5 grade under age teams would get us consistently into the top 4 or 5 teams in the country, i think it would, not accounting for the occasional dip (which all teams have) and the shambles that was the last regime over the senior team has resulted in us falling further, faster then was necessary mainly because a lot of lads are unnecessarily unavailable.

We simply cannot compete with the drain to football, retirements, injuries and a management team who fall out with so many players. Need luck on the injury fronts and everyone pulling in the same direction to stand a chance.

[TheLoneRanger]

In my view we don’t. They have 3-4 special talents . Maybe not forwards but they make their team. But we don’t have any Jamie Barron’s or Austin Gleeson for example.

Not many have an Austin Gleeson to be fair. He’s something else. savage player. We did have a Danny Sutcliffe though. We had a Peter Kelly till he was injured. We have Eoin O’Donnell. I wouldn’t lose sight of some of the players we have produced over the last few years. If some of them are gone for good prematurely then it is a real shame but we still produced them.

We’ve gone backwards because the 2013 team is finished and Cunningham was a disaster
But some here are still expecting some of the 2013 team to make some sort of a Lazurus style recovery that is not happening any day of the week.

Agree … but the point we’re discussing is whether consistently producing top 4/5 grade under age teams would get us consistently into the top 4 or 5 teams in the country, i think it would, not accounting for the occasional dip (which all teams have) and the shambles that was the last regime over the senior team has resulted in us falling further, faster then was necessary mainly because a lot of lads are unnecessarily unavailable.

We simply cannot compete with the drain to football, retirements, injuries and a management team who fall out with so many players. Need luck on the injury fronts and everyone pulling in the same direction to stand a chance.

But we are consistently in the top 4 minor sides of the last decade . But we lost all the cream or most of it .
We also have no track record of beating Munster teams at minor or senior level . Which again brings into question are we really a top 4 side or is it because Leinster is inferior to Munster at underage level
I find our progress at senior level has been awful considering how many times we’ve played in the all Ireland semi finals at minor and u21

[Wifi]

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=274398

I sort of like this, the Cork management complaining that the Dublin defence were too rough. I saw this all year, they were taking no prisoners in any game which will stand to them at senior level. We can be too nice sometimes.

[Signylin]

Some of frees given away yesterday were needless, some borderline, and to my biased eyes, at least 3 should have been frees out for barging by Cork forwards. Cork were better team, but we had our chances to make up the 6-point gap…

[Tayto]

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=274398

I sort of like this, the Cork management complaining that the Dublin defence were too rough. I saw this all year, they were taking no prisoners in any game which will stand to them at senior level. We can be too nice sometimes.

The problem is if the ref is blowing everything, you can;t afford to be rough - the free tally handed the game to them, at least make them score from play and work for their scores.

[alanoc]

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=274398

I sort of like this, the Cork management complaining that the Dublin defence were too rough. I saw this all year, they were taking no prisoners in any game which will stand to them at senior level. We can be too nice sometimes.

The problem is if the ref is blowing everything, you can;t afford to be rough - the free tally handed the game to them, at least make them score from play and work for their scores.

Same with the 17s last week. Can’t be giving away frees in the name of being ‘tougher’.

[Dubcat51]

Some observations on the game.cork good but no great shakes.silly fouls gave easy scores to cork.also free taker should have been changed for dublin earlier.last year you got burke out of your minors outside of currie who do you see stepping up to senior in a few years.

[Wifi]

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=274398

I sort of like this, the Cork management complaining that the Dublin defence were too rough. I saw this all year, they were taking no prisoners in any game which will stand to them at senior level. We can be too nice sometimes.

The problem is if the ref is blowing everything, you can;t afford to be rough - the free tally handed the game to them, at least make them score from play and work for their scores.

Same with the 17s last week. Can’t be giving away frees in the name of being ‘tougher’.

Yes, I agree with both of you, but it is a fine line. At the same time we stopped goals. But what I like is the mentality of it really in that they are not standing back from their ‘betters’, if they are going to be beaten the other team has to earn it. Cork probably were marginally a better team in both games, but I would be happy enough that we were up there at that level. Particularly at U17, a team that loses an AI final by 2 points can well produce as many senior players as the team that wins it by 2 points.

[whorelinbat]

Terribly disappointed with the line. Up to today they seemed to try and play the right way. Believe in the team and let them hurl. Someone above mentioned the team seemed to lack confidence. I have no doubt that this is because they played a sweeper for the first time this year which is usually an admission that you think the other team is better. Not good to be feeding youngfellas that kind of stuff. That the team had not done so up to this point was also a problem in my view. You can’t just change your style of play this late in the year. They never managed to mend the problem of wides and the issue with free taking either. Looking at Murphy on the 17s, in particular last week you’d wonder why he wasn’t the free taker for both squads

Very disappointing.

Were you actually at the game Alan? We didn’t play a sweeper.

[alanoc]

Yes we did. And if you look above you’ll see I’m not the only one who thought so.

[whorelinbat]

Yes we did. And if you look above you’ll see I’m not the only one who thought so.

Who was the sweeper so?