And also silverware is mentioned. I never said anything about silverware. I’m talking about teams getting beaten by thirty or forty points. A competitive balance is what you’re looking for. If Vincent’s never won a championship I’d still prefer good competition than pointless games that are over in minutes. Surely no one getting beaten by forty points can enjoy it?
10 teams as long as Vin’s are in the 10 Alan? That might sound a bit smart arsed Alan I know, but I do think it would affect your opinion if they weren’t.
I disagree with Tayto. Teams are learning from it—that they need to do a hell of lot more than they currently are, to match the level at the top table.
Some teams are disappearing out the gate because either they didn’t invest in the underage, or didn’t let the underage come through— players holding their positions on Senior Teams based on past glories rather than current performances. You need a drubbing every now and then to wake you up and decide things have to change. Otherwise these guys plod on forever.
The exact same drubbings happen in Football with the new Top 16 format instead of Top 32,—just that you cannot run up the same nature of scores in Football, but the gulf is the same. And it definitely will not drop to a Top 8 in Football.
You’re wrong. It wouldn’t. I’d have no interest in Vincent’s getting tanked and I would take the longer view for the good of hurling in the county.
10 Team Championship
Preliminary Round - Open Draw
5 Winners go into Group A
5 Losers go into Group B
Top 2 in Group A & Top team in Group B qualify for Semi Finals
3rd place in Group A plays 2nd place in Group B for last Semi Final Place
Bottom 2 in each group get relegated or play off with 1 team going down.
If you go with 10 teams each round has a “bye” which will scupper the whole thing, specifically postponement, county players rule etc.
Having a bye per team adds at least 1 week extra per round, in essence having 10 teams in 2 groups of 5 adds at least 1 month to the calendar. 8 or reluctantly 12 is way to go
Part of the issue, or a lot of the issue, is that asking teams to vote for a smaller championship is like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. No team that struggled their way up through the ranks is going to voluntarily go back again.
The reality is that nearly the same amount of teams can win the hurling championship as the football one. But hurling does exaggerate a gap. A seven or eight point gap in football becomes a twenty point one hurling.
It would be very hard to do. But the ideal way to fix the imbalance is to make the weaker ones stronger. That can be through investment, or even allowing some degree of limited amalgamation.
Look at the Champo results since April:
Cuala rammed it into Judes, Brigids and BSJ
Na Fianna rammed it into O’Tooles and Faughs
CC/Vins rammed it into OPERA and Barrs
Setanta took it in every match.
That’s 8 teams so far that have taken a hammering at some point, and not just this weekend, and we still have the Q/F’s to play. Realistically we could end up with just 4 teams this year who won’t have felt a 15-20 point pasting. Doesn’t matter whether that was in Rd 1 or the Q/F, luck of the draw in reality.
Vins also took a bit of a hammering against Craobh.
With all due respect, whether its 8/10/12 or current 16, Vins will be there. Pointless argument otherwise…
Sorry - not sticking up for anyone but constructive conversation surely better than throw away comments at the only person with the balls to actually give his true identity on this thing!
Also, disagree that teams learn anything from a hammering. Your better off winning or loosing by a point in the B to a similar team than a drumming of 20+ by a team you are nowhere near…
If you’re happy and content with the ambition of winning or losing by a point in the B Champo then you are 100% correct. Big Fish/Small Pond and that’s exactly where you will always stay. You have it down to a tee —know your station, and stay there.
Regards being Constructive, I don’t believe demolishing the A Champo into a small group of the elites (and that is not a insult to them) will serve us well. Top players in smaller clubs are generally very ambitious and want to play Champo at the top level too- to see how they can do one to one, versus a top intercounty player marking them maybe-- and we should give them that chance. I’m merely pointing out that the group of Elite Clubs is not made up of 8, but maybe 5, or less. It just won’t serve hurling any good.
Alan can have a cut at me if he wants, and he has made his point.
We never felt we were getting it “rammed” into us in OPER… in the champo yesterday we lost 1.22 to .16 against a good Craobh team in a competitive game you couldn’t have been there by your comments (less then Vinnies did)with 7 of our team U 21.Vincent’s outplayed us in first game but we felt we learned so much from that game .We want to play at the highest we can. Most players will say the same from any club. Big difference is panel cover between the big and small clubs example Barrs had a couple of key injuries to big players which ruined their season. Not disagreeing with some of the points but not black and white either.As setanta said last year they were near a q final I think you would lose something too by creating the super club champions league of championship with their massive numbers and resources
You had the first cut. You come across as a WUM tbh. A blind man can see that there are not 16 senior teams in Dublin, no matter what you say. Using pejorative terms like “elite” is all you’ve got, really. The best players on less able teams could play on divisional teams. It’s the GAA, not the Vincent De Paul. We should not be harming hurling in Dublin just so less able teams can pretend that they are of Senior A Hurling Championship standard.
Ask anyone in Barrs, Setanta, O’Tooles if they would rather be in the A or B championship. They will say A.
Ask anyone in Barrs, Setanta, O’Tooles if they would rather be in the A and getting thumped by 20/30/40 points OR be in the B, regroup, win it, and come back stronger in a year or two to compete in the A. Not be in a 8 team contributing to elitism or 10 team with bye weeks. But a 12 team where they can play top opposition and then maybe win a game or two and stay there again. Building year on year.
Im sure i know what most of them would pick.
Have a think before you bash your keyboard on what Championship a team, not able to compete in that championship, should be in.
Apprentley , the scoreboard in the Nell cant take anything larger that 9 goals.
Too many hidings, not good for the game. Gap too big.
Hopeing for decent Q/Ts.
You’re making my point. I think that people who are looking to cut the A Champo down are not doing hurling any service. Most of the teams taking the beatings are the same ones who have got there by winning B some time back, just like you say, and now they are trying to build. Don’t cut them out of it now.
But you use the word “compete”. If by that you actually mean “get to the Q/F” then fine, no issues, but if you mean actually have a chance of winning the Champo, then there’s no way 12 or even 8 teams are at the level. So that being the case you may as well leave it as 16, and let those currently weaker teams aspire and build to “compete” eventually. I’m 100% with that.
And you think forty point beatings are doing hurling some service?
I don’t ever recall a weekend like the one we just had. And if they go down to B and win their way back up they’d be far more ready having played a serious championship with teams of like ability.
Agree and disagree.
No, don’t get destroyed.
Yes reduce from 16, for me 12. Nothing less though
Have a look at the score difference of the fourth placed teams versus the third placed ones. Tells you all you need to know.
Don’t be giving us work to do. Post them there will ya
@alanoc with reference to your time on Ccc2 and having potentially more insight to adult CCC than the rest of us… what is the actual genuine chances of this changing from 16?
The whole nonsense of winner v winner to avoid dead rubbers didn’t work.