Covid 19 - The Third Wave

Sure we may as well keep her lit…

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You do realise, that only a year ago the mere idea that we would end up having to carry around our “Passport to Normal” papers, belonged only to conspiracy nuts in the darkest corners of the web.

So yes, some perspective please.

@Roman

I do get the concern of this and I expect requiring those with AIDS for example in the 80s to carry ID would have been met with huge resistance. The difference is however this is a very contagious virus that transmits via the air. That’s what’s happened in the year.

Regarding the requirement of being vaccinated for your job. Is it much different than having to undergo eye exams in order to fly a plane or drive a train?

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I think an argument would be made that an eye exam for pilots is needed to fly a plane safely. A vaccination is not.

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I don’t agree with Roman but the answer to this is yes and it’s quite obvious how.

In an eye test you get tested to understand the quality of your eyesight, whether you need glasses or not.

With a vaccine you are injected with a substance containing multiple chemicals and whatever else.

Nothing is entered into your body with an eye test. With a vaccine there is.

Failure to acknowledge that getting this vaccine isn’t a black and white everyday decision and part of our normal lives, like an eye test is, does nothing to advocate for a vaccine.

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You could argue that with Covid being largely asymptomatic being vaccinated is the only way to be sure you’re not carrying it or transmitting it. Especially in a health setting.

But it’s a requirement - you need to have good eye sight or you lose your license.

And I don’t think anyone is saying getting this vaccine is a black and white affair. Even though we get the flu jab every year and that changes each year.

We’ve got to stop meeting like this!

I’m just looking forward to ‘The Fourth Wave’ thread without having, ya know, an actual fourth wave.

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We don’t know whether the vaccines stop transmission yet. So the whole conversation is a waste of time if they don’t.

But if they do, which is more important? The individuals right to risk spreading a lethal virus or a society’s right to protect itself from reckless individuals. New Zealand is hardly an authoritarian regime but you can’t go there now full stop.

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How do you mean? Surely it stops you getting it which means you can’t pass it on. Or what’s the point?

That’s what you’d think but you might still carry the virus after vaccination you just won’t get sick. They don’t know for sure. So currently getting vaccinated is just protecting yourself.

Regarding the work place. I think it will depend on whether the vaccine prevents transmission or just stops serious illness.

Imagine an office setting, 3 people sitting in a bay. Pregnant lady with two people either side, entirely plausible scenario, the pregnant lady cannot get the vaccine and the other two have refused it. What does the employer do?

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It’s a requirement to drive, fly a plane or train.

Not to partake in society in any form. You do not need an eye test to enter your local supermarket, attend a concert or match, get on a plane, book into a hotel, go to school etc etc. One could choose to never get an eye test if they wished to. They wouldn’t be able to do a small number of things but that’s it.

A vaccine and eye test are not similar, in the slightest. It’s blatantly obvious how.

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If they don’t stop transmission then you have a choice, vaccine or virus. Which do you want.

Malbec.

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:joy:

Stand down will ya.

No one is dying on the hill of eye sights being equal to a vaccine. Roman was making the point getting vaccinated was a requirement to keep a job - I made the point there are other requirements to keep a job. That’s it.

Move on.

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Vaccine for me anyhow. But I can understand a person in a personal capacity refusing it. If you are healthy, young, no kids etc then I can see that logic. It may be selfish logic but I understand it. Basically it’s why take the risk of a new vaccine when your experience with covid is likely to be asymptomatic. That logic becomes under strain in a societal level though and that’s the world of employers. It will be interesting to see how it pans out as if enough people refuse it then outbreaks in offices will be occurring for quite some time.

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And there was me thinking Roman managed to have the last word, and he only just outed as a writer of film scripts.

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Theres no definitive proof that the current vaccines stop you transmitting the virus on to someone else. They reduce how sick you become if you catch it.

Theres a good article on journal.ie where the head Pfizer guy sounds very confident that their vaccine will also reduce transmission. More hard data on this is due in February.

I would imagine that social distancing, WFH and possibly even lockdowns will continue for the foreseeable future unless vaccines are available that reduce transmission in addition to reducing how bad your symptoms are

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